A useful short history of the king's water can be found here.
Since 1965, Catholicism has had its own version of aqua regia, and the Church has been guzzling it. It's called ecumenism, but it has gone well beyond rational discussion to a positive hysteria--ecumania, if you will. And it appears to have made ecumaniacs of the USCCB, what with their recommendation for expanded intercommunion.
Sounds positively ecumaniacal, in fact. A better dissolver of Catholic teaching you will not find.
Look, my handful of devoted readers and those close to me know I'm a convert from mainline Protestantism. I wasn't practicing much before I converted. Honestly, if a Religion Detector Monitor had existed and I'd been hooked up to it, it probably would have read "Deist with a healthy measure of appreciation for Christendom and the Bible."
I like to think that I've spent the last sixteen years becoming a somewhat useful disciple of Christ in His Catholic Church. Lord knows, I've had my spiritual bumps on the way, and my worldview has shifted from 1999--in some ways, radically.
And my beloved wife and I have had some less than smooth sailing. We dropped her income when we had our second. And then our third came along--three kids in three calendar years plus 10 days. We've been crammed seven of us into 880 square feet with no basement or garage--that back in 2010. My car is older than all our kids. We've had other financial turbulence I'd rather not discuss.
Still, discipleship costs. I can accept that.
And then I read that we really need to share the Eucharist with the titular Evangelical Lutherans (as opposed to, say, the evangelical Lutherans in the Missouri Synod--from whom the late Fr. Neuhaus sprang). Despite the fact that, you know, they don't believe in all that Catholic crap.
Huh. But, apparently, that's not enough to deny the source and summit of the Christian life, the sacrament of Catholic unity, to members of an ecclesial community which is drifting further away from us in oh-so-many-ways.
The ELCA says that abortion is often a "morally responsible choice." And while it claims to frown on abortions after "fetal viability," baby-killing Doctor George Tiller was a member in good standing of the ELCA, as the church website solemnly notes. [And don't even try to jump into my face suggesting I'm happy with Tiller's murder. WRONG.] Yeah--can't wait to gather around the alt--er, table and sing Kumbaya.
But, we must march ahead. Forward, forward--always forward, eh, yes? No.
I mean, really--communion with the ELCA immerses Catholic witness in a vat of aqua regia, turning her gold into powder. On what basis do we require anyone to hold to the Catholic faith--much less to be properly disposed--before approaching the altar?
If you have a daughter undergoing first communion prep, why does she have to go to confession before receiving when the Lutherans do not?
Or, more topically: Lutherans remarried after divorce: come on down for this moving ecumenical moment!
Catholics--not so fast!
I'm sure the accusation of phariseeism, older brotherism, the chirpy "it's an evangelization opportunity/eating with sinners!"--all the usual airhead darts--are being nocked to the bowstring by the usual suspects. Allow me to retort:
More seriously, at least my rule (the Eucharist for properly-disposed Catholics) has the force of Tradition, reason and consistency behind it. As a convert undergoing the conversion process, I was escorted out at the end of what was known as the Mass of the Catechumens. And it made perfect sense to me. I approached the Eucharist by careful steps--as a disciple--secure in the confidence I was doing the right thing. Non sum dignus, but I'll get there.
More the fool me: I should have waited until the ecumenical dialogue with my former church had sufficiently progressed--that way, the Eucharist would have come to me instead. "Oh, good for the Catholics to grow up like that and share."
If you need any further proof that the Catholic Church's confidence in her own teachings has largely dissolved in the acid bath of ecumenical fervor, look no further than this "breakthrough."
Dale,
ReplyDelete"And then I read that we really need to share the Eucharist with the Evangelical Lutherans." ELCA Lutherans are liberal and made up of LCA and ELC Lutherans who formed the new synod. The Lutheran Church Missouri Synod Lutherans (about the same size at about 2.5 million members) are pro life, do not ordain women and do not have altar and pulpit fellowship with the ELCA Lutherans. Not just a different denomination.
Agree - but the photo needs to go. I understand your sentiment of anger about false ecumanism, but a critic of your comments would go straight to your photo and use it to prove your "phariseeism" and beyond.
DeleteYeah, I need to clean that one up. I was not speaking of truly evangelical Lutherans--LCMS or WELS. I rather admire the LCMS, truth to tell.
ReplyDeleteI like some things about LCMS, but their belief that the Pope is the antiChrist (I verified it last in 2006 on their website, and I would love to know if they have changed) makes ecumenical ... difficult.
ReplyDeleteExcellent points, Mr. Price and, most importantly, it gives ABS the opportunity to quote his own self, for he has been saying for years
ReplyDeleteEcumenism is the Universal Solvent of Tradition.
One other thing ought be noted; while many Catholics, especially soi disant traditionalists, think that what we require is the election of a traditional Pope ,but that, in and of itself, is inadequate.
We require the election of a Pope with an iron will who will rule with an iron rod and he must - absolutely must - act swiftly and with great puissance; he must excommunicate all known sodomites and heretics and kill the lil' Licit Liturgy and if he dos not do these things - out of fear of causing a schism- the sodomites and heretics will simply lay low until he is laid down.
Catherine Lueckenotte,
ReplyDelete"The LCMS does not teach, nor has it ever taught, that any individual Pope as a person, is to be
identified with the Antichrist. The historic view of LCMS on the Antichrist is summarized as follows by
the Synod's Theological Commission:
The New Testament predicts that the church throughout its history will witness many antichrists (Matt.
24:5,23-24; Mark 13:6,21-22; Luke 21:8; 1 John 2:18,22; 4:3; 2 John 7). All false teachers who teach
contrary to Christ's Word are opponents of Christ and, insofar as they do so, are anti-Christ.
However, the Scriptures also teach that there is one climactic "Anti-Christ" (Dan. 7:8,11, 20-21, 24-25;
11:36-45; 2 Thessalonians 2; 1 John 2:18; 4:3; Revelation 17-18). . . Concerning the historical identity of
the Antichrist, we affirm the Lutheran Confessions' identification of the Antichrist with the office of the
papacy whose official claims continue to correspond to the Scriptural marks listed above. It is important,
however, that we observe the distinction which the Lutheran Confessors made between the office of
the pope (papacy) and the individual men who fill that office. The latter could be Christians themselves.
We do not presume to judge any person's heart. Also, we acknowledge the possibility that the historical
form of the Antichrist could change. Of course, in that case another identified by these marks would
rise.
Sorry about the formatting. It was a cut and paste that went rogue.
ReplyDeleteDale,
ReplyDeletePart of the problem is that these ecumenical commissions are made up of the people most interested in ecumenism, which are by rule (at least within Holy Mother Church) indifferentist heretics. The reason they don't object to sharing communion with those who disbelieve in the holy sacrifice of the Mass is because they don't believe in it themselves. If we're going to continue with these dopey ecumenical projects that have zero chance for success, we need ecumenists who are more like Russian diplomats and less like American diplomats.
I should say also, that the other big reason they don't give a damn about intercommunion with everyone is because they think Paul was full of baloney when he talked about receiving the Eucharist unworthily leading to damnation (they think he was full of baloney on a lot of subjects, of course). THey ought to mandate that the Lauda Sion be used as the 'communion song' (nb. this is what the GIRM actually calls it, bleh) at every Mass until people all get their heads screwed on straight.
ReplyDeleteOf course, it isn't just ecumenism (which relates to other Christian bodies), but interreligious enthusiasms. And in that vein, behold the latest...development at Our Saviour in Manhattan, the former parish of Fr. George Rutler which has been enduring bouts of finance wrecking iconoclasm at the hands of his successor over the past 18 months or so. Now, it seems, he had the church host some Hindu doings as part of an interfaith prayer session to fight climate change (of course).
ReplyDeletehttp://wdtprs.com/blog/2015/11/update-our-saviour-church-in-manhattan-hare-krishna/
Canon 1210 allows a pretty broad writ for loaning church space out to non-Catholic doings (and really needs to be desperately rewritten), but even by that standard, this is just astounding. And utterly unthinkable until the last generation or two - or to Fr. Rutler.
P.S. I actually read the declaration, or at least the parts on the Eucharist, I should say. The agreement basically seems to boil down to this: 1) Jesus is present in some real way, and 2) the Eucharist has great spiritual benefits. There's a little trimming on this feast, but basically, that's what it amounts to. Numerous differences are elided. They even line up statements by Luther and Aquinas right next to each other without even bothering to unpack the obvious differences right in them.
ReplyDeleteThe question arises of how we can possibly share communion with people who don't believe what we believe that communion actually is, let alone all the other doctrinal questions on which we differ. But I think KaeseEs is right up above: the USCCB representatives don't really believe it, either. "The reason they don't object to sharing communion with those who disbelieve in the holy sacrifice of the Mass is because they don't believe in it themselves." It's really hard to look at what such prelates say and do and conclude that they really actually believe it.
This is typical of the riff raff that are the majority of present day Americans, this includes a large majority of Catholics, who hold that the culture that gave rise to them, must be denigrated and destroyed and be made subservient to all other cultures, eventually to be, intentionally, wiped out and history rewritten. We are seeing the end of the America that our parents knew. I feel like a stranger in my hometown, in my state and in my country. I feel the same way in the Catholic Church.
ReplyDeleteWhat saddens me is what our children and grandchildren will face. But, the Riff Raff deserve to be destroyed by their our fruits; they well deserve it. But my kids and their kids do not.
My contempt for the Catholic hierarchy is substantial. It is also quite appropriate.
My solution, however, would run against all tradition: To have a layman or a succession of lay men, over a generation or two, or longer if necessary, to be the CEO of the Catholic Church until it can be left, again, in the hands of the clergy. I would prefer an faithful abandoned spouse, who knows the scum of the earth he is dealing with.
Not workable, I know. I can dream, can't I?
Karl
We should not be with sinners at all. We should not be sinning at all. Do not sin, period. Be perfect as the Father is perfect. To be with sinners is to put your soul in the occasion of Sin which we are to avoid at all costs. We shouldn't hang out with the prostitutes just because Jesus hung out with the prostitutes. Jesus hung out with prostitutes because He is God and He could never be defiled by perversion or adultery. We being mere creatures are very much tempted in situations which concern the flesh. So we do not go to places where we can take that huge fall into Mortal Sin in which if we can get to Confession before for death in this case death befall us we would be condemned to Hell before we got to the Confessional. This would be playing Russian Roulette with are immortal soul. Be prudent do not hang out with prostitutes, the drug dealers or the neighborhood saloon. Go to church, read about the Saints and go to Confession often. Choose your friends prudently also that, that friendships will be fruitful for everyone in their pilgrimage to the Kingdom of God and glorifying Him on the Way.
ReplyDeleteI was in an ecumenical bible study in the 80's and I think it worked because the Holy Spirit made it work. I miss those times and since then some have given up the faith, some have died and me....I just see conservatives in all denominations finding common ground. We cling to the truth of Scripture, the Creeds The uniqueness of Christ. Does this mean we can worship together? I can, others can, some can't. I am ok with the latter too.
ReplyDeleteDale,
ReplyDeleteI have an increasing disdain for the term "conservative." My thought process goes like this.
Why in the world would we want to conserve the status quo in the Church (or even secular politics)? Retaining the status quo in the Church is to retain the defunct and bankrupt disorientation of the pastoral Second Vatican Council. It has inverted the proper orientation of man toward God to man toward himself, as made obvious in the heretical declaration in Gaudium et Spes 24: "For love of God and of neighbour is the first and greatest commandment".
It is the so-called "conservative" Catholics (correctly coined neo-Catholics) who defend the past fifty plus years of Church-destroying ambiguity with vigor. Traditional Catholics are denigrated as schismatics for not seeing the most awesomest manifestation of enlightenment to ever have permeated the Church. New Pentecost. New springtime. New evangelization. Complete bull.
Dale M:
ReplyDeleteI think that joint Bible studies and even prayer services can be worthy endeavors. It's when we start claiming unity and sharing sacraments when there is no unity that I raise my voice to object.
Dale,
ReplyDeleteSpot-on. Ecumania is the clearest way (short of a direct repudiation, the type that Wormtongues hate to give) to declare that you don't actually believe all that solemn nonsense.
Conversely, it can't just be me that thinks a Catholicism that's self-confident enough to say "since you asked, yes - we really do think all you Protestants need to repent of your schism and become Catholic" is radically more attractive than "we're OK, you're OK" lukewarm pablum.
God have mercy.
-Zach
Dale,
ReplyDeleteI understand your thoughts on this. I also understand why many Roman Catholics don't believe there is anything to be gained from dialogue with folks from other denominations. Why do I understand this? I think there is nothing to be gained by the Global South Anglicans meeting with Justin Welby, TEC, the ACoC and CoE.